The piece did not make me especially popular with the folks back home. A cousin who was a Mormon convert was especially unhappy with me—and probably for good reason.
Mitt Romney, the first Mormon presidential nominee, initially emerged as a Trump critic. His promises are as worthless as a degree from Trump University. In addition, the church itself has made changes. It has allowed more women to become missionaries, giving them a more significant role, and has made some fitful efforts to become more welcoming to LGBTQ people after spending decades persecuting them.
The church was a primary bankroller of long-running efforts to fight same-sex marriage, a nasty campaign that prompted one gay member, Stuart Matis, to commit suicide on the steps of an LDS Church building in The church chose not to oppose recent Utah laws that banned gay conversion therapy, and supported a major anti-discrimination law in Griping about Utah liquor laws is a treasured pastime among Gentiles, as non-Mormons in Utah are known. Drinking, after all, is how we distinguish ourselves from the Mormons.
Last year, the state became the first in the nation to lower the legal blood alcohol content for driving to. Liberal California is considering doing the same. Since , both the Mormons and I have evolved a bit. But they still have a way to go. They have three other books, the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price and a book called Doctrines and Covenants, and evangelical Christians would never accept that those books are inspired or the word of God or are prophetic.
The good news about Mormonism is that they believe in continuing revelation, and they might actually, in continuing revelation, begin to modify and alter some of the things that they see themselves as having received in earlier revelation. They have scholars who consider all kinds of complex topics.
But Mormonism has pretty much entered into the mainstream of intellectual life. MOUW : I want to say I think the motives of people who often attack, for example, attack Mormons as evangelical leaders or other kinds of Christian leaders is that they do want to protect their people against falsehood, against being led astray.
His words did not sit well with many evangelicals. But attitudes seem to be changing. Do you really think at this point in time that a Hindu, Jew, Buddhist, Muslim, atheist, or anyone of any faith other than Christianity could be elected president of the US regardless of their qualifications?
This seems obviously hypocritical to me when these same churches not just LDS campaign for the banning of gay marriage, for example. I have the same problem with the Catholic Church or any church that spreads hate. The reason why my church got so involved is because prop 8 was a moral issue.
We push for anything that betters the community morally. But what we do not get involved in is political parties. The reason why we are against gay marriage and gay acts in general is because we believe that marriage is a very sacred covenant towards god and the between the spouses. And should only be done between a man and a woman. We also believe in a pre-mortal life and when were spirits we had a gender already with us.
Thus a man acting like woman or woman acting like man is wrong and is a mockery to god. I cannot over state how sacred marriage is to our religion. We do not hate gays we hate the sin not the person. For more information try this website. This would be true if the organization itself wanted to be identified as unique entity.
Yes they are like a Chameleon changing colors based upon who they are talking to. If The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints please note the real name of the Mormon Church were to present itself as Christian, and not actually be Christian, how many converts do you think would stay in the Church, after finding out they were duped into thinking the Church is Christian? I am a convert of many years, and I can guarantee any and all that this church is a Christian Church.
If it were not, I simply would not be a member. Yes, you should absolutely talk to ex-catholics and ex-baptists. Your distorted representation of the faith I believe appears designed to discount the merits of the individual without considering their actual position on a given issue. You should know better. On this basis, honest people from any political persuasion should be anxious to see a Mormon candidate from their party elected.
Mormons are absolutely Christians. A Christian, by definition, is someone who believes in the gospel of Jesus Christ, believes that Christ is their Savior and the Redeemer of mankind. They stand with conviction to declare the Jesus is the Christ and give a lot of attention to spreading His gospel throughout the world.
Furthermore, they provide humanitarian efforts throughout the world that are unparalleled by other large service organizations and non-profits. Service is a central concept of the Mormon belief system that stems from Christs teachings. The church does nothing to hurt humanity or individuals.
In other words, I am a Mormon. I have learned many things about Jesus Christ while attending meetings there, and one day after partaking the emblems of the Sacrament I wrote the following. I hope you like it, and that you and all others who read this will realize that Mormons are indeed Christians. Sacred are the things of Christ; so great the price he paid. Reverently I ponder how his life he freely gave. I promise to remember him; my Savior ever more. Sacred are the things of Christ; I eat the broken bread.
I recall his body bruised; to the cross how he was led. I promise to forsake my sins; I plead forgiveness now. I feel my burdens lift from me; I make this holy vow. Sacred are the things of Christ; I take and drink the cup.
In Gethsemane he bled; On the cross they raised him up. He is my Covenant Father now; Oh, praise his saving grace. Justin, the Bible calls Jesus the Son of God. The Bible also says that all humans are children of God, and therefore heirs and jonit heirs with Christ. That makes Jesus and all humans brothers and sisters, unless you want to add or take away from the words of the Bible. Furthermore, many of the early Christian fathers wrote that God became man to teach man how to become god.
You are right that most western Christian sects do not believe these things. I understand that as LDS you want to take pieces of scripture and twist them to fit Josephs theology. This is not Christian theology at all and is not a correct understanding of the passage if you study it.
Romans is Paul telling the Jews they were not part of gods new order John They had not been born again with regenerated eyes. To be part of this family you have to be in Christ, associated and identified with even His sufferings that you may share in His glory. We are joint heirs if we are born again.
We will inherit the kingdom of heaven. I do not respond to belittle you. In fact I have a great amount of love for you and I want you to find freedom in a world without legalism. Don take my word for it. I will name a few of your own. You also mention that many of the early christian fathers wrote that god became a man to teach… You are correct it was called Arianism and it was abolished and swept off the face off the earth because it was a heresy.
Last, you are telling me that god almighty could not preserve the words of his prophets and Jesus so he had to have a court documented occult treasure hunter lead a restoration that still has only 10 million members 4 million active. Please study and research your faith and its history. The Joseph Smith quote about God once being like us and we having the potential to become like him is being misused.
God is perfected in his attributes and character. Jesus asks his disciples to be perfect like God is. Thus through Grace, we too will become perfect. Romans The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
I come across this quite often and it really needs to be addressed. Most people never really read through them, and when they did, they never understood them. The Catholic Church has published their own doctrines online.
You are merely regurgitating misaligned thoughts and preconceived notions. Oh, and before you quickly jump to further incorrect interpretations of the above passage, you should already know scholars have peer reviewed the meaning behind this and have come to the conclusion that what is shown above is exactly what is interpreted. There is no hidden meaning. They have substantiated this claim because they also found philosophers and preachers from 30AD — AD during and immediately after the death of Christ , who have shared this belief and have known for it to be true during that time period.
There is a great amount of hatred on this thread. Most people want to throw another religion under the bus so their religion can be defended or so that their beliefs are not washed away. There are also those who are of no belief, who want to chime in. Ask questions, listen to answers. Research all matters. Ok Ken, so you listed a bunch of weird things Mormons believe. He hates when I do that stuff!
Compare these standard mainstream Christian beliefs with any of the alleged Mormon beliefs on the list provided by Ken Dahl. Romney and Mormons want to be considered Christian to gain the right wing Christian vote. They cannot do that if they are show for what they really are which is no different than the branch dividiens.
Justin, you have missed the entire point. You are not a Christian. You do not live the Christian gospel. You repeat something you heard your two-bit pastor say. Thomas you may be right. I may not be a christian in your eyes. I am a Jesus follower and Jesus called a viper a viper. I also might add that we are commanded to defend the faith. I have no anger with you or any other but will defend the faith.
I am not sure what a two-bit pastor is, but please study the Bible and research any faith that takes away from the bible and you will see that they just dont hold any weight. The apostle Paul understood the importance of apologetics in his ministry to the Gentiles.
Paul was not only ready to preach the gospel, but he was ready to defend the gospel as well Phil. In this context, Paul is in effect saying that he is ready to stand up for the true gospel amid some who were preaching Christ with selfish, insincere motives. Like Paul, it is incumbent on us as Christians to be ready, willing, and able to defend the true gospel of Christ albeit many have embraced a distorted gospel of Christ that cannot save Gal. If you believe in Buddha, you are a Buddhist.
If you believe in Vishnu, you are a Hindu. If you believe in the prophet Mohammed, you are a Muslim. If you believe in Jesus Christ, you are a Christian. Harry Reed is a Mormon. Should he be allowed to continue as Senate President? Does his religion allow him to think for himself.
He is a Mormon. Shame on him……. This is ridiculous. Nice red herring to keep bringing up….. What is at mormon. But what you are talking about is extremely sacred and you are ruining how sacred such things are but I will address them. Garden of Eden in Independence, Missouri Independence, Missouri is probably the least understood topics in my church. Prophets have even said that it is one of the least understood topics. Right here are some very deep stuff that most members do not understand.
Temple complex at Independence Missouri: All god has done he has just specified place. Adam Ondi Ahmin is place that is kept ready at all times the missionaries that maintain this huge amounts of acreage report directly to the prophet. Polygamy: Here is the short answer. Long answer Your sealed to your first wife when she dies and you fall in love and get remarried and you die. According to what you believe to be right the man would have to choose between to do.
If that happened to me I would have a hard time choosing because I would probably love them both. But we do not pratice it on the earth today. Blacks being cursed: No we do not believe that either. I do not know why blacks did not get the priesthood and other prophets before blacks got the priesthood did not understand either. It is just like in the bible with Jews being taught first then the gentiles. We do not know why the gentiles did not get the gospel only that they could not get the gospel.
In fact Mormons when we were getting kicked out one of the main reason why we kicked out of Missouri was because we would unbalance the vote and support and abolitionist. We respect Native Americans to one of the earliest missions of the church was mission to the Native Americans and to this day they are still able to receive the priesthood as long as they live worthy for it.
I mean what boy would lie about what at the time sounded absurd. I mean if he wanted more followers he could have told them that the trinity showed up. Why would a man die for a lie?
Why would a man lead his pepole through some of the most horrible trials for a lie? Why would a man suffer such adversity for a lie? A liar would realize it is not worth the trouble and try to worm himself out of the situation. But Joseph Smith stood tall and took on the adversities he was given.
One time some men burst into his room took him from his wife and children. Left the door open and killed one of his babies through exposure. He had hot tar painted all over him and feathers on him to further humiliate him.
They also attempted to poison him when they tried to stuff it in his mouth he clenched his teeth and they broke the vial but no poison made it into his system. When he walked in his house his wife tried to remove the tar.
But tar when it cools does not easily come off so while it came off it took painful chunks of flesh off of him. When morning came he walked outside and preached of Jesus recognizing the men who did this act to him in the audience. A liar would not do that. A liar would not have walked out and preached knowing he and his family would suffer.
How could a man who barely knew how to form a sentence let alone a book produce a book that has way more writing styles than any book ever written? How could a man who could only write his name write a book that added more words to the English language than Shakespeare.
How could a man who had the education of a 5th grader write a dual history of two distinct cultures that the world did not even know about. I mean if it is fake it is some pretty darn elaborate fiction way beyond the capacity of a 5th grader. How could a man who was alive at the time that medical science was so primitive that no one knew about germs and if you washed your hands after every patient you would be able to double their chances of living.
Reveal a lifestyle which is now the suggested lifestyle by modern science. This man was not delusional or liar because a liar would have gave in a long time ago. All that we know is in the pearl of great price. It is like the Quantum physics and very advanced science except this is religous quantum physics.
The Masonic handshake is a very sacred part of the Endowment. The Endowment is to give pepole knowledge of the past i. The present Gods plan for us. The future Second coming. This stuff is so sacred that we do not mention this stuff outside the temple. It is not secret we urge every member to live worthy to receive a temple recommend and pull out their endowments.
And as God is Man will become. I mean does a lion cub turn into a zebra no it becomes into an adult lion. The Three Nephites were taken up because God wanted an apostasy for his children. Latter God decided it was time for prophets so thus came Joseph Smith.
Either you are an ex-member who is trying to be Korihor like and trying to bring down the church if you are one of these people. Keep this quote in mind this quote. The Lord Almighty so orders it. Also keep in mind that it is never to late to come back and any ward would welcome you back like family. If you showed up in my ward me and my ward would. If your a person who does not fully understand what your talking about or you do not know where to find the truth and you keep on running into hateful ex Mormon sites.
Try Mormon. Jonathan, I suspect you will one day better understand your religion. Many of your comments hold errors. For starters Joseph Smith, in his own words, says he was 16 years old when this supposed visitation occurred. Mormons were breaking the law, not honoring their agreement with the state and harboring fugitives.
That is why they were expelled from Missouri. The Mormon church has put lipstick on a pig with their sanitized and rewritten history. Just know. Some are good and true. Some, however, are evil and filled with lies. There are quite a few people who think that to get both sides of the story they should go to Exmormon sites. Heck even some of the things are hidden in lies.
The Mountain Meadow Massacre. Everyone knows about this. One it was not organized by the top leadership and two not everyone was killed or so to say brutally murdered. It was actually caused by this said group passing through one of the Mormon towns in Utah. They were so pissed with the mormons that they said when they made it to California they would bring back an army to make them trade and stuff like that.
They spared them and eventually returned them to their families. This is just one of many examples I can choose from. And even though this is actually the true account of what happened I bet there will still be people who see this and will disagree with me. But if you are a religious person who writes the evil lies on this and other articles I only have one thing to say for you. For every time you do you get that much closer to sring Satan rather then Jesus.
As Ken Dahl noted in his comments, traditionally, Mormons excluded Black people because they were considered descendants of Ham and cursed with dark skin. In more recent times, Mormons, perhaps to increase their membership, began reaching out and recruiting Black people. Most African Americans remain uncomfortable with this history. I thought the article was very good and a significant contribution even though this concern was omitted.
Going to exmormon. Is this depiction fair? I gave some accurate info but that a lot of misleading info as well. The mix in false ino with some truth and those without knowledge of true LDS doctrine and practice are deceived. They lie in wait to deceive Eph.
I like your post Ken. I see where everyone is coming from who has replied to your post. So now I am going to give my opinion. I do not vote for a politician based on their religion preference, I vote for what they stand for in helping this country. I do not like Obama, never have and never will. I think this man has led America in to the depths of hell and if he is re-elected will just continue that journey.
I feel he is the better candidate for presidency. We have had Christian presidents in our history and I am pretty sure not every American voting for them were thrilled about that, but they probably voted for that person because of the stand that person took for America; and that is what is important. I wish people would quit focusing on a candidates religion and the negative media the opposite candidate puts out there on them.
I want to know what a candidate is going to do to help this country, especially now. Read and Learn what The Mormon religion is all about! Before you all making any remarks about it…. Thank you for this remarkably perceptive analysis. The basis for prejudice against Mormons is ignorance. Most people regard the Mormons as a blank slate on which they project their favorite fears about religious minorities. Liberals think that any dedicated religioys believers are mindless robots.
Conservative Evangelicals think Mormons are faux Christians conducting a vast conspiracy to drag real Christians to hell. Neither group gives Mormons credit for individual intelligence or moral reflection, and assume Mormon animosity toward themselves. The fact that Mormons are a bit betterneducated than average, that they are overrepresented in academia, that Mormons with more education tend to be even more loyal to their religion, that Mormons have a more positive view toward people of other faiths—that is, are less religioysly prejudiced—than any other denomination, are simple facts of which their critics are totally ignorant.
The criticsnat both extremes of the religioys spectrum only know one or two things about Mormons, and then extrapolate an entire bogeyman out of that. The most severe anti-Mormons at both ends are willing to invest vast amounts of time and rhetoric attacking Mormonism, but very little actually learning how Mormons themselves think. Their shared rationale is, this one thing I know about Mormons is so hateful to me, I do not want to waste any of my time gaining a sympathetic understanding of them.
And the bottom line at both extremes is the determination to obliterate Mormons and their beliefs from society, to deny them the opportunity to participate in discussions about religion or public polucy in any forum controlled by the critics, and thus create a vicioys circle of prejudice reinforcing ignorance, which feeds prejudice.
I know very little about Mormonism but if people are discussing their beliefs and practices and how they have or have not evolved over time we would be remiss not to mention one of their recent practices that has lately emerged, namely that the Mormons have been obtaining lists of deceased Jews and posthumously baptising them.
Specifically, the practice has been discouraged, condemned, and can even lead to negative consequences for the members involved. Church officials also said the church would remove the names of Holocaust victims placed on the lists before Michel evidence that the Mormon lists still included the names of at least 20, Jews, many of them Holocaust victims and prominent figures like the philosopher Theodor Herzl and David Ben-Gurion, the first prime minister of Israel.
Radkey also provided Mr. Michel with evidence that many of these Jews had been baptized after the agreement. But Mormon officials say they remain in full compliance with the agreement. Ken, this is the first thing I thought of after reading this article. Regardless of the official policy, it seems to have still gone on after the agreement. Seems like Ken did check his facts Carl. In terms of history and religion, 17 years ago would still be recent. Are we supposed to discount an event just because it happened 15, 20, or 50 years ago?
It still reflects on the organization. Todd Christofferson, a church official involved with the negotiations. The church removed the names of Holocaust victims listed before and continues to instruct its members to avoid baptizing Jews who are not directly related to living Mormons or whose immediate family has not given written consent, Mr.
Christofferson said. And the official response to Mr. There appears to be some disagreement on the interpretation of the agreement between the Mormons and the Jews. Perhaps an additional agreement is needed to clarify. One thing, however, is clear. The church does not condone such actions and can and does revoke database rights from those who violate the policies. Should the church do more to prevent it? Probably yes. There could be some form of filter that detects prohibitted names and at a minimum flags them for review before they are allowed to proceed.
Is the church obligated to do such? There is no honest way I could say yes or no, but it appears to me that the answer is no. A clarifying agreement would be needed to make it certain one way or the other. As a member, I would not be against the idea of a filter like I described. Did they check to make sure there was or was not consent from the those who have decended from them?
If there was relational consent, then they were in agreement…. OMG, maybe some day thay will baptise Baptists as well…. Oh yeah, they already are. The Mormon practice of proxy ordinances for deceased individuals is keeping with their desire and value to see all of humanity receive every blessing God has in store for them.
They are not closing doors on the past identities of those they do proxy work for, they open the door of opportunity to others. It is a selfless kindness that is unbelievably being used as a political pawn of contention to drive a wedge where none should exist. If anyone from any religion wants to go out of their way to perform some rite on my behalf so that I can get access to all that God has for me, I would never complain!
Even if that website were sincere, I think most Mormons would feel that it could have no impact on them. There are several reasons for this:. Power: Again, most people would contend that they have no power to actually cause a change even if they somehow had the authority. The power behind Mormon baptisms is also questioned. Agency: Even with both authority and power, Mormons believe strongly in agency i. The same idea applies to Mormon proxy baptisms. The same three ideas apply to any group attempting to postumously convert any other group.
If they are trying to help you reach heaven or send you to a significantly hotter place, it will make no difference.
This is one reason why the church has any agreement at all with any Jews. If you think about it, the church is under no legal or other obligations to care about offending anyone. If they wanted to, they could simply continue without caring what anyone else thinks of them. However, they work out agreements like the one in instead. John and Carl- first of all Carl whether the Mormon church has followed its agreement with Jewish organizations is bad enough—the point is that they baptized deceased jews who of course could not defend themselves and they baptized Holocaust jewish victims who were destroyed for being jewish, many of whom enjoyed and believed in their religion and culture and you would imagine after suffering horrible atrocities for their identities and beliefs and paying the ultimate price for them, do not want to be listed in some Mormon genealogy as baptized Mormons.
The point is that as recently as jewish organizations had to point out to the Mormon church that this practice was wrong and offensive otherwise they never would have got it or stopped it or even thought about it.
I have to agree with Carl about this topic. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has no legal obligation to change its policies about baptism for the dead but do so out of respect and at the request of those who feel their rights of religion are being imposed upon.
There are two practices of the church that should be made aware to those who are having a problem with baptisms for the dead. Before a baptism for the dead is to be submitted.
A deceased person is supposed to have been deceased for more than 90 years, or the submitter should get permission from kin before a baptism is submitted. The Church practices a policy that it teaches the members the rules that they should follow and then let the people mostly govern themselves. This means that rule 1 is in place, members of the church have been told about it, and should follow it.
So I think we need to clear something up here. Baptisms for the dead are indeed a service, and a service that is not considered by anyone to be binding upon an unwilling individual. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that baptisms for the dead, just like baptisms of the living, are only of force when the individual in question accepts the ordinance. The record that is kept simply shows that their work has been done.
That is, as a church. The church is made of individuals. And the individuals conduct the work of temple ordinances, including baptism for the dead, on a very personal basis.
I say again that we as a Church have done nothing wrong. Consider the fact that automatically assigning nonbelievers to hell after this life with no reprieve has been the general Christian, Islamic, Jewish, etc, tradition for millennia. Given the reasoned analysis of modern mormonism given by Dr. Hutchison-Jones, the opening tone of the article is puzzling. Opening with a flippent remark about Mormon cultural practices is pretty much an ethnic slur.
Hutchison-Jones specifically refutes that very ignorance. Any practicing Mormon who embraces polygamy is excommunicated. These polygamists belong to an entirely separate religion that is generally disliked by LDS.
Even a simple google search could have easily revealed this fact. Sound familiar? Just like mainstream LDS want to be called Christians while others object , you have no right to define others religious identification. That Catholics cannot say that someone who calls himself catholic but who in actuality is not a member of the Roman Catholic Church, is not catholic? Your comment is nonsensical. Jews are by matter of lineage and birth always Jews.
If you understood anything about the Jewish heritage you would know that. Steve, people can convert to Judaism. This is especially true in an organization like the Catholic Church which has so much structure. Your statements about Mormon polygamy are misleading. It is true that polygamy is not allowed to be practiced by living Mormons, but it is very much still a believed practice my fellow Mormons who attend the temple and have had a spouse die can confirm , and polygamy is still included in official Mormon doctrine Doctrine and Covenants section I think both Mormons and non Mormons should look at why Polygamy was started.
Joesph Smith the Mormon Profit practice polygamy and took on wives at the age of 15 and while his friends were away he would tell their wives God wants you to marry me. Joesph Smith was a horn dog. That is why polygamy is in the Mormon church to begin with. It was also a means of providing for those women at a time when marriage was a highly valued institution in our society. Proof again, that racism is not the problem it used to be, rather religious intolerance is still the number one issue as it has always been.
After all, our country was founded because of religious intolerance. As a minority, I can tell you that Racism is still a problem. Religious intolerance is a problem too. There are lots of problems. Maybe in some parts of the country, and maybe in small circumstances, but I BEG to differ.
This country has come a long way—look at Powell and Sec. Soon, whites will be the minority and Hispanics the majority…will whites be given an advantage in college admissions? How will this be perceived?? Jackson, are you trying to start an argument? But Kathy is right that it still exists. I think especially in a city like Boston you might not see it as much as other cities or parts of the country. According to Wikipedia, So how soon exactly is this happening? Asian Americans make up 4.
The reason is because if you look at average education levels and household incomes they are higher for whites and Asians Americans than for Latinos and African Americans. This is obviously way off topic from the article. Other minorities at BU will say the same. Only those who are on the receiving end of racism get to decide that. Not off topic; KathyBates brought up racism after all. A race base policy. Go beyond wikipedia, which is not a great source anyways. The birthrate of minorities has surpassed those of whites.
And by Hispanics or Hispanic whites, if you wish are expected to surpass non-Hispanic whites in the population. Interesting article.. Instead, they persecute those who believe what they once believed themselves; in Biblical terms they are like Esau in the 25th chapter of Genesis; but they bought into American citizenship that way — and are as immoral as Jacob in denying basic life or liberty without payment.
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